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curlerbroad
Super Rockchucker
Registered: Feb 2004
Location: Toronto
Posts: 1214 |
Over the hog line
A question for our curling wizards. If during a game you notice a player on the opposition letting go of the rock over the hogline do you:
1) kick off the rock and yell at them
2) have the front end stand at the side and stare intently at the release?
3) speak to their skip
Not sure what to do but it is starting to cause some controversy in our league. Too bad clubs don't invest in rocks that light up!
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Well Behaved Women Don't Make History.
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04-03-12 09:05AM |
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celtichound
Swing Artist
Registered: Dec 2007
Location: Toronto
Posts: 268 |
Re: Over the hog line
quote:
Originally posted by curlerbroad
A question for our curling wizards. If during a game you notice a player on the opposition letting go of the rock over the hogline do you:
1) kick off the rock and yell at them
2) have the front end stand at the side and stare intently at the release?
3) speak to their skip
Not sure what to do but it is starting to cause some controversy in our league. Too bad clubs don't invest in rocks that light up!
Personally CB, I'd beat 'em over the head with my broom  .Seriously though, if it's an ongoing problem I would mention it to their skip. If they're any kind of sportsperson at all, they shouldn't have a problem. Actually, the sweepers should be honest enough to fess up when it happens. If that doesn't resolve the issue and it's one particular team/curler, and an ongoing issue,you likely aren't the only team experiencing the problem. I'd talk to other teams and your league rep. Whew.....that was rather long winded.
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It's forty-two pounds of polished granite, bevelled on the belly and a handle a human being can hold. And it may have no practical purpose in itself but it is a repository of human possibility and if it's handled just right, it will exact the kind of poetry...
Paul Gross-Men With Brooms
Most games are lost, not won!
Casey Stengel 
Last edited by celtichound on 04-03-12 at 01:33PM
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04-03-12 09:44AM |
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ngm
Harvey Hacksmasher
Registered: Feb 2011
Location:
Posts: 44 |
Curling is almost always a self-officiated sport. Unless a team declares its own violation, nothing can occur during a game.
The most I would suggest, during a game, if repeated violations of some kind are occurring, is for the non-offending team's vice to ask the offending team's vice to please take care with whatever aspect of the rules is being violated. If the vice is the problem, talk to the skip. I might even reserve this for really disruptive things and not hog-line matters.
For hog line violations that occur repeatedly over a longer period, out of the dozens of people who play in and organize your league, surely there is someone who is capable of bringing it up in a tactful manner with them.
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04-03-12 09:46AM |
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nelski
Super Rockchucker
Registered: Oct 2004
Location: The Valley
Posts: 1085 |
Re: Over the hog line
quote:
Originally posted by curlerbroad
A question for our curling wizards. If during a game you notice a player on the opposition letting go of the rock over the hogline do you:
1) kick off the rock and yell at them
2) have the front end stand at the side and stare intently at the release?
3) speak to their skip
I choose 2).
Lead or second stands on guard for every throw where the thrower commits hogline violations, if it is important to the team that this stop. Really, it's just a psychological tactic. Nothing more is required.
If the other team is snide and ignores this, just stand there all the time, every time. There's not much more you can do in club play. Sentinel can also say out loud. politely, that it was released over the hog.
Other choice: 4). Ignore it and don't let it get into your head. Focus on your own game.
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Simple! It's all in the release. 8-/
Last edited by nelski on 04-03-12 at 09:59AM
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04-03-12 09:48AM |
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curlerbroad
Super Rockchucker
Registered: Feb 2004
Location: Toronto
Posts: 1214 |
Good ideas everyone. Personally, I have found #2 works well. This is a young team that does it. Our club has allowed juniors to play with adults this year. Of course there is grumbling amongst the oldtimers about them.
However, best to just play the game.
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04-03-12 10:13AM |
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Unregistered
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Registered: Not Yet
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Re: Re: Over the hog line
quote:
Originally posted by nelski
Other choice: 4). Ignore it and don't let it get into your head. Focus on your own game.
This. I've seen too many instances of hogline vigilantes acting like jerks on the ice, and in most cases it's not warranted as a thrower is close but not over on release. You have no recourse as an accuser during a game to remove stones/place stones or anything like that, so why get your panties in a bunch?
Another option would be to mention it afterwards, either when shaking hands, or better yet up in the lounge afterwards. Life is too short to sweat the small stuff like releasing it 6 inches over.
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04-03-12 10:18AM |
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celtichound
Swing Artist
Registered: Dec 2007
Location: Toronto
Posts: 268 |
Re: Re: Re: Over the hog line
quote:
Originally posted by Unregistered
This. I've seen too many instances of hogline vigilantes acting like jerks on the ice, and in most cases it's not warranted as a thrower is close but not over on release. You have no recourse as an accuser during a game to remove stones/place stones or anything like that, so why get your panties in a bunch?
Another option would be to mention it afterwards, either when shaking hands, or better yet up in the lounge afterwards. Life is too short to sweat the small stuff like releasing it 6 inches over.
For the most part, that's good advice,unless it's a repetative issue. The only time I had to deal with it, I first had my sweepers watch for a couple of ends to make sure it wasn't marginal, it was obvious and was happening repeatedly. I mentioned it to the skip. He was okay, and said he'd mention it to the player, end of story, no more problem. Might not always be that easy, but if it was my team, I'd want to be told, so as not to create any hard feelings. 
__________________
It's forty-two pounds of polished granite, bevelled on the belly and a handle a human being can hold. And it may have no practical purpose in itself but it is a repository of human possibility and if it's handled just right, it will exact the kind of poetry...
Paul Gross-Men With Brooms
Most games are lost, not won!
Casey Stengel
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04-03-12 11:09AM |
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JackFlash
Swing Artist
Registered: Apr 2005
Location: GTA
Posts: 259 |
quote:
Originally posted by curlerbroad
Good ideas everyone. Personally, I have found #2 works well. This is a young team that does it. Our club has allowed juniors to play with adults this year. Of course there is grumbling amongst the oldtimers about them.
However, best to just play the game.
Believe it or not the OCALA considers 2 intimidation and almost as bad as a hog line violation, the last time I tried the "sheriff" defense.
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04-03-12 01:07PM |
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nelski
Super Rockchucker
Registered: Oct 2004
Location: The Valley
Posts: 1085 |
quote:
Originally posted by JackFlash
Believe it or not the OCALA considers 2 intimidation and almost as bad as a hog line violation, the last time I tried the "sheriff" defense.
Monitoring a hog line is not a rule infraction. Check. Confirm whether it is true. Let the team know in case they are not aware.
Also, when I play lead or second, I often stand near the throwers hogline so I can step behind the thrower to watch the line of the rock. It is a valid and useful position for a front end to stand. It is not intimidation, it is sensible play.
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Simple! It's all in the release. 8-/
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04-03-12 01:48PM |
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GregW
Hitting Paint
Registered: Jun 2006
Location: Brantford, On
Posts: 119 |
From the rules of curling for general play:
Rule 7 (1) (d) The non delivering team members shall not take any position or cause such motion that
would obstruct, interfere with or distract any member of the delivering team.
Option 2 from the earlier post could certainly be construed to be in violation of this rule.
That being said I have been accused in the past of holding on too long so I should probably recuse myself from this discussion.
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04-03-12 03:00PM |
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curlerbroad
Super Rockchucker
Registered: Feb 2004
Location: Toronto
Posts: 1214 |
Interesting but I was under the impression that when you aren't throwing your rock you should be standing between the hoglines.
Useful information from everyone.
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Well Behaved Women Don't Make History.
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04-03-12 03:11PM |
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GregW
Hitting Paint
Registered: Jun 2006
Location: Brantford, On
Posts: 119 |
quote:
Originally posted by curlerbroad
Interesting but I was under the impression that when you aren't throwing your rock you should be standing between the hoglines.
Useful information from everyone.
No, you are right. Between the hoglines gives you about seventy feet of room to choose from. Right on the Hogline "staring intently" could be distracting was the point I was making.
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04-03-12 04:50PM |
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JackFlash
Swing Artist
Registered: Apr 2005
Location: GTA
Posts: 259 |
quote:
Originally posted by curlerbroad
Interesting but I was under the impression that when you aren't throwing your rock you should be standing between the hoglines.
Useful information from everyone.
You should! That's why the OCA interprets standing at or straddling the hog line as intimidation
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04-03-12 04:52PM |
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tomsephton
Knee-Slider
Registered: Dec 2006
Location: HRM, Nova Scotia
Posts: 5 |
For what it's worth and if all else fails and the skip/vice ignore your common sense approach - do it right back at them. A taste of their own medicine will either straighten them right up or at least lead to a post game discussion in the bar. In either case, don't let them get into your head and put you off your own game. Gotta luv gamesmanship.
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04-03-12 04:56PM |
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Unregistered
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How about on your own shots, slide all the way to the far end and just place the rock where you want it... gets your point across in dramatic fashion
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04-03-12 05:18PM |
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CaptMorgan
Drawmaster
Registered: Feb 2009
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 784 |
quote:
Originally posted by Unregistered
How about on your own shots, slide all the way to the far end and just place the rock where you want it... gets your point across in dramatic fashion
During practice, I have tried this. It is way more difficult than it sounds!
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04-03-12 05:41PM |
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Manitoba Legend
Supreme Champion!
Registered: Jan 2009
Location: Arkham House
Posts: 6120 |
quote:
Originally posted by CaptMorgan
During practice, I have tried this. It is way more difficult than it sounds!
Not if you're Jeff Stoughton!!!!
Actually, if another team is offending at more than one position, and ignoring all hints about infractions then violating yourself, and doing it more profusely than your opponent might be the only way to make your point. After all, its only a club game - there's no money on the line, no auto-berths at the Brier or Scotts. Just a 8 or 9 end slog!
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04-03-12 05:48PM |
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Yikkity
Knee-Slider
Registered: Oct 2011
Location: Scotland
Posts: 6 |
I have seen this the other way, where an elderly team were complaining to me (skip) that my junior front end were hogging the stones repeatedly. I know they weren't, but these young guys had been taught to follow through on release in the handshake position and so it looks, to some, as though they still had the stone in their grasp through the hogline. I told my front end to release and raise their hand straight up to the side of their head before the hogline for the remainder of that particular game, which sorted the perceived problem. However, if it had been an important game, should I have asked my front end to change their delivery release just because the opposition can't see properly or should I have ignored the complaint?
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04-03-12 05:51PM |
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Manitoba Legend
Supreme Champion!
Registered: Jan 2009
Location: Arkham House
Posts: 6120 |
quote:
Originally posted by Yikkity
I have seen this the other way, where an elderly team were complaining to me (skip) that my junior front end were hogging the stones repeatedly. I know they weren't, but these young guys had been taught to follow through on release in the handshake position and so it looks, to some, as though they still had the stone in their grasp through the hogline. I told my front end to release and raise their hand straight up to the side of their head before the hogline for the remainder of that particular game, which sorted the perceived problem. However, if it had been an important game, should I have asked my front end to change their delivery release just because the opposition can't see properly or should I have ignored the complaint?
No, you shouldn't have to alter their deliveries. Especially, if they're in the right, as you indicate. However, the best way to do this, is to select a neutral arbitrator, another club member or knowledgeable curler to stand at the hog for an end or two. If this person is respected he'll report to the complaining team that they have nothing to worry about!!!
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1/2 the lies they tell about me are not true!
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04-03-12 06:00PM |
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Unregistered
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This is ridiculous. Just focus on your own game anyways. It doesn't help them anyways hanging on to it that long. Tell the old people to focus on their own game and make more shots rather then trying to make excuses.
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04-03-12 06:03PM |
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67
Harvey Hacksmasher
Registered: Mar 2012
Location:
Posts: 16 |
My 2 cents here is to just let it go especially if we are talking league play here, I mean really in the grand scheme of things it does not matter.
Kids are pushing the hog line all the time cause they can and if they don't figure out how to control it they will pay the price when it matters in an important event, not a league.
Even the big boys and girls are all over the hog line during the cash season because they can, once they get to a CCA event with the magic rocks you can't so they don't.
As several posters have suggested the best solution here is to beat them because regardless of which method you chose to address it, you are not going to fix it, so just have fun and teach them a lesson by beating them.
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04-03-12 07:46PM |
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Unregistered
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If this so called team of juniors (composed of all adults) is such an annoyance to you I'm sure there are many other clubs in the area that would gladly have them join their leagues.
My suggestion is to pay attention to your own sheet and not worry about the other games a few sheets over.
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04-03-12 08:23PM |
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guido
Swing Artist
Registered: Feb 2011
Location: borebank st.
Posts: 213 |
We had an older guy that use to complain all the time about guys over the hogline. (It seems that the guys that slide all the way to the t-line are the ones complaining.)Anyways his kid started curling and is one that is "close" to the hogline when he releases. The old guy doesn't complain anymore.
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04-03-12 08:58PM |
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Unregistered
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Personally a conversation with the skip is the most decent and respectful thing to do. Complaining on curling zone about a problem that was not relevant to your game is not appropriate.
Young teams are the future of the sport and being disrespectful towards them is not helping curling or anyone else for that matter.
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04-03-12 09:19PM |
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