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Old Post 04-18-17 07:04PM
curlinglove is offline Click Here to See the Profile for curlinglove Find more posts by curlinglove Add curlinglove to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
curlinglove
Harvey Hacksmasher

 

Registered: Mar 2016
Location: Bay City, Michigan
Posts: 57

2017-18 High Performance Program

Now, I apologize for the likely premature discussion of the HPP. However, I am unapologetically curious and call for more information and spectator input. If only curiosity doesn't kill this cat!

According to recent announcements, there will not be a formal combine for the HPP. Rather, an open application and potential invite to tryout. I take this announcement is due to no intent on alterations to the adult teams for the Olympic year? Christensen, Roth, Sinclair. Brown, McCormick, Shuster. I like the teams here. I believe all teams serve the potential for a podium finish at the Olympic Games. It is simply a matter of who is hot when. The only alteration I would count on is position change. I can't imagine a brand new team in the wake of an Olympic year.

Now, for junior HPP. I can imagine brand new teams here. However the lack of a formal combine indicates the HPP does not plan for a large number of new athletes. If I am not mistaken, all junior athletes of 2016-17 are eligible for 2017-18 other than part of Team Clawson. I would not count on a shuffle for Team Stopera that earned silver at the world championships. The second boy team is a mystery as I am not familiar with junior athletes outside the program, but I do know there are talented players out there worthy of HP. For the girls, there may be a shuffle. I would not expect athlete changes because I believe all girls are eligible still. I would expect alterations to Team Bear and Team Dubberstein because I am not positive the HPP developed the strongest teams. I know the girls are capable of a podium finish at the world championships. How the HPP lines them up to serve the most potential, I can't say. I am out of the loop on this one and this *is* junior curling.

Thoughts?

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Old Post 04-18-17 08:06PM
wiscocurl is offline Click Here to See the Profile for wiscocurl Click here to Send wiscocurl a Private Message Find more posts by wiscocurl Add wiscocurl to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
wiscocurl
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Registered: Apr 2017
Location: Wisconsin
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So I gave in to creating a curling zone account in order to take part in your thread.

I agree on the adult HPP comment. The teams formed last season are here to stay for the Olympic Trials. The trials are in November. That is far too little time to prepare a new team, IMO.

Before I get into the junior HPP comment, I must say that I do not support the role of HPP in junior curling! Give junior athletes access to HP coaching in order to develop athletes for the future. Let the kids choose their teammates, team coaches, uniforms, et cetera. The sole purpose for the HPP is to get USA to the podium at the Olympics... right? What do junior curlers have to do with that? Let the kids be. I have said this before and I know I am not the only one feeling this way. But... we are four years in to the HPP and there appears to be no light at the end of the tunnel.

So on to your junior HPP comment. Because I have to live with a HPP for junior athletes (not that it really affects me in any way, but I care about the future for USA Curling), I will say that the HPP should hold a formal combine for juniors. Keep the program as open as possible to the kids outside (that includes kids that might not fit the basic tall and thin HPP look). Yes, there should be new boys to the program. What about new girls to the program? I can recall self-funded female teams having closer games with Team Dubberstein and Team Bear at the 2017 junior national championship. Team Running, Team Traxler, and Team Quello are the next teams in the final standings. Please open the program to new faces.

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Old Post 04-20-17 11:42AM
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chapnlie
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Registered: Jan 2005
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Completely agree that the HPP should stay out of junior program other than to provide some coaching.
Also NOT a fan of HPP ... and hope to hell that Heath McCormick & Co are not participating in the ongoing European Masters with HPP money. Hard to imagine a worse use of HPP dollars than sending a team to Europe after the current US competitive season has closed. As bad as any political junket by a lame duck politician.

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Old Post 04-20-17 12:28PM
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Gerry
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Registered: Sep 2002
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quote:
Originally posted by chapnlie
Completely agree that the HPP should stay out of junior program other than to provide some coaching.
Also NOT a fan of HPP ... and hope to hell that Heath McCormick & Co are not participating in the ongoing European Masters with HPP money. Hard to imagine a worse use of HPP dollars than sending a team to Europe after the current US competitive season has closed. As bad as any political junket by a lame duck politician.



Order of Merit points are earned throughout the entire season and a good finish by McCormick at the European Masters will put them in a better position to qualify for the Grand Slams next season. The season is not over with Sinclair and Shuster also playing in next week's Champions Cup as well, all experiences against top-ranked teams that will help USA teams improve.

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Old Post 04-20-17 08:30PM
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curlinglove
Harvey Hacksmasher

 

Registered: Mar 2016
Location: Bay City, Michigan
Posts: 57

I get that the HPP is hard to like for some, but it is needed. Better results for the USA at world championships and Olympics lead to increased publicity and interest in order for curling to grow. The junior HPP might seem unnecessary, I thought so too at the start. But I understand the idea is for USA Curling to invest in young athletes that have the potential to earn medal results in the future. The HPP did enlarge the junior program to four teams so that more athletes have a chance to make the team. The mentality that every kid should have HP access is no different than that of every kid should have a trophy. Sorry.

On the Heath McCormick remark, I would bet the team gets support from the HPP. With 2017-18 being the Olympic year, there is no end of the season for the guys. I can imagine they'll be training all summer long.

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Old Post 04-21-17 12:31AM
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dbsdbs
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Registered: Feb 2013
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quote:
Originally posted by curlinglove
But I understand the idea is for USA Curling to invest in young athletes that have the potential to earn medal results in the future. The HPP did enlarge the junior program to four teams so that more athletes have a chance to make the team. The mentality that every kid should have HP access is no different than that of every kid should have a trophy. Sorry.




There is no reason to limit opportunities for junior curlers. HPP can hardly identify which adult curlers will make the best teams in the coming season. How are they going to identify the juniors that will be the best curlers in 5-10 years? Some kids peak early, others continue to improve. Why limit the field before they have to?

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Old Post 04-21-17 01:40AM
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curlinglove
Harvey Hacksmasher

 

Registered: Mar 2016
Location: Bay City, Michigan
Posts: 57

quote:
Originally posted by dbsdbs


There is no reason to limit opportunities for junior curlers. HPP can hardly identify which adult curlers will make the best teams in the coming season. How are they going to identify the juniors that will be the best curlers in 5-10 years? Some kids peak early, others continue to improve. Why limit the field before they have to?



I don't see how the HPP limits opportunities for junior curlers. They have an open application. I don't know why there is no formal combine this year. Kids who want access to HP can get that through the annual HP open camp. Sure, junior teams outside the program don't have the same funding, but I bet they can work around that and the lack in funding doesn't limit their ability to curl.

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Old Post 04-21-17 10:40AM
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curlky
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Registered: Oct 2013
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quote:
Originally posted by dbsdbs


There is no reason to limit opportunities for junior curlers. HPP can hardly identify which adult curlers will make the best teams in the coming season. How are they going to identify the juniors that will be the best curlers in 5-10 years? Some kids peak early, others continue to improve. Why limit the field before they have to?



How do they identify them, are you serious? Like any other competitive sport/team for the past, lets just say past few decades, you hold a tryout, and select the best players who tried out. Sure there will be some misses, kids who peaked early but never progressed, and others will slip through the cracks as late bloomers, but the tryout system works in sports to see who makes a team.

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Old Post 04-21-17 11:03AM
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Gerry
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Location: London, Ontario
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Junior Curling and what to do with it is a challenge in our game, in general, these days. It's happening in the HPP but also in levels where the teams select their own. The best talent collects together to create super teams leaving kids behind who could be quality competitive players with a little work, but we're looking for short term successes here that causes this to all happen.

It's not so much the fault of the HPP that juniors are going this way and more a result of other countries doing the same. On the competitive front, the Junior HPP is showing great successes with arguably the #2 ranked HPP teams upsetting older, more experienced teams and then going off the Worlds and having success. They year before both USA teams medalled as well, so we're seeing what we need out of the development of the program.

One other benefit of the junior program is that it trains the kids to work within the realms of a program setting them up for the future and the work required to succeed at the adult level. I feel that an important factor in why there needs to be a program at the Junior level as well.

This comes to how we solve the other problems surrounding youth curling (and sports) in general where there is so much emphasis on winning. The newly developed U18 Championship is a great start as it helps give these younger teams more opportunity to develop and stay with their teams. We need more junior events and as the talent pool expands there will be opportunities for camps to help develop players too.

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Old Post 04-21-17 12:36PM
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kdropkin
Harvey Hacksmasher

 

Registered: Jun 2011
Location: Framingham, MA
Posts: 15

Gerry,

I agree that U18 is a tremendous development opportunity and in the US will bring back the regional interest, participation, and growth that is so important to sustainability. Having experienced HP at its best and worst within my own family, I'm very pleased to see the US take the leap forward in this area. Now if we could convince HP to keep hands off of recruiting our youth until they age out of U18........

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Old Post 04-21-17 02:09PM
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AlanMacNeill
Drawmaster

 

Registered: Sep 2011
Location:
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*AN* HPP program is needed.

*THIS* HPP program...I have my doubts.

Junior playdown numbers were pathetic this year...it was all but sign and go. There were more teams in the GNCC Playdown alone 3-4 years ago than there were in the ENTIRE National playdown this year.

Yes, it may be building *one* better team, but one better team at the expense of dozens of other teams...not worth it. If adults want to sign up for that model, great, but let the kids play. Junior Worlds results have no bearing on Olympic Qualification, there's nothing to lose by just letting playdowns happen and the winners go. We don't need to be rigging the system to ensure "The Chosen" team goes (or at least "One of the Two Chosen Teams".

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Old Post 04-21-17 04:19PM
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wiscocurl
Knee-Slider

 

Registered: Apr 2017
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 2

Still, there is no reason for the HPP to take over junior curling. I know kids who choose to only do high school curling because they feel any other competitive play is limited by two HP teams. Again, results at the junior level do not translate to results at the adult level. The US has won gold at the world junior championships before but has yet to win gold at the Olympics.

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Old Post 04-21-17 04:36PM
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Gerry
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Registered: Sep 2002
Location: London, Ontario
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quote:
Originally posted by wiscocurl
Still, there is no reason for the HPP to take over junior curling. I know kids who choose to only do high school curling because they feel any other competitive play is limited by two HP teams. Again, results at the junior level do not translate to results at the adult level. The US has won gold at the world junior championships before but has yet to win gold at the Olympics.


You pick one example of it not working, but overall the benefit of Junior success does prepare players for the adult level as well.

Brad Gushue, Niklas Edin and Peter De Cruz were all World Junior Gold Medallists. Rachel Homan, Anna Sidorova and Eve Muirhead all stood on the World Junior podium as well.

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Old Post 05-04-17 01:53PM
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Harvey Hacksmasher

 

Registered: Mar 2016
Location: Bay City, Michigan
Posts: 57

The deadline for the application to be considered for the High Performance Program is tomorrow...

News of 2017-18 HPP teams coming soon?

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Old Post 05-22-17 09:48PM
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curlinglove
Harvey Hacksmasher

 

Registered: Mar 2016
Location: Bay City, Michigan
Posts: 57

No thoughts on the announcement of 2017-18 HPP athletes? Minimal changes with no change to adult teams. I expected that with the announcement of Olympic Trials teams. I am VERY excited for that event by the way (go Christensen and Shuster). Olympic years are my favorite.

Junior HPP saw change. Team Blue of the Junior Men interests me. Difficult to know what to expect as far as line-ups go. Team White with Clawson seems solid. Though I expected Dunnam (of Team Blue) and Clawson of 2016-17 Team Clawson to stay together. I am curious to see who will lead Team White of Junior Women. Between Dubberstein and Bear, I assume. Lastly, Team Blue of Junior Women appears to be Team Bear without Bear. I believe this is the team that competed at the Nationals in Everett with Farrell at Skip. Interesting. I'd say it's safe to bet excellent results from the junior teams.

Thoughts on the 2018 Junior Nationals format changes? Interesting that HPP teams will have the automatic berth again. I like the move to four regions. Helpful to junior athletes from an academic and economic stand-point. Greater choices in dates and locations.

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Old Post 06-03-17 01:31PM
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AlanMacNeill
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There's no surprises here, which isn't surprising in and of itself.

The only real question was how they'd deal with the one Junior Male aging out of the Juniors...would they shoehorn him into an adult slot of not? And...well...no, they didn't...but they did hold onto his brother still in Juniors.

Pretty much as expected for an Olympic year.

AS for the Junior Nats format changes, given that last year's attempt to streamline qualification was a disaster, they had to do something, and returning to Regional Qualification was never gonna happen...what they did was about their only option.

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