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Manitoba Legend
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Top Male Curling Minds (Canada)

Hopefully, this will incite some good comment and miimize the haters and vicious trolls (looks like Dallas and Gerry are starting to ban trolls & haters, GOOD!)
Anyways, here's my list of Canada's top curling minds (going back no more than 20 years)

1. Kevin Martin (pretty obvious, I like how he calls a game and has the shots to back up some of his bodacious calls)

2. Russ Howard (brilliant strategist who could make all the shots, just a tad behind K-Mart). Could probably still skip a playoff team at a Brier, even at age 57.

3. Glenny Howard - no big flaws. Some stamina issues near event playoffs, etc

4. Richard Hart

5. Jonathan Mead (Stoughton's third, a real plus for Stoughton who isn't known for a giant curling intellect, especially last couple years when he was virtually getting hammered by THE MONSTERS)

6. Rick Folk/Randy Ferbey (Tie)

7. Al Hackner/Rick Laing (tie)

8. Kerry Burtnyk (just ran out of youth pills)

9. Mike 'Ham Hands' Harris

10. Stoughton/Kevin Koe (tie)

11. Pat Ryan, Kevin Park, Don Walchuk, Mike McEwen, Middaugh.....

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J-Ho
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Re: Top Male Curling Minds (Canada)

quote:
Originally posted by Manitoba Legend
Hopefully, this will incite some good comment and miimize the haters and vicious trolls (looks like Dallas and Gerry are starting to ban trolls & haters, GOOD!)
Anyways, here's my list of Canada's top curling minds (going back no more than 20 years)

1. Kevin Martin (pretty obvious, I like how he calls a game and has the shots to back up some of his bodacious calls)

2. Russ Howard (brilliant strategist who could make all the shots, just a tad behind K-Mart). Could probably still skip a playoff team at a Brier, even at age 57.

3. Glenny Howard - no big flaws. Some stamina issues near event playoffs, etc

4. Richard Hart

5. Jonathan Mead (Stoughton's third, a real plus for Stoughton who isn't known for a giant curling intellect, especially last couple years when he was virtually getting hammered by THE MONSTERS)

6. Rick Folk/Randy Ferbey (Tie)

7. Al Hackner/Rick Laing (tie)

8. Kerry Burtnyk (just ran out of youth pills)

9. Mike 'Ham Hands' Harris

10. Stoughton/Kevin Koe (tie)

11. Pat Ryan, Kevin Park, Don Walchuk, Mike McEwen, Middaugh.....



No Ed Werenich? He won off his curling mind his whole career!!

JH

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Manitoba Legend
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Yes, Werenich was more mind than body. The Moe Norman of Canadian curling!!!!

So was the guy who vanquished Eddy in 1984, Mike Riley of Winnipeg.

Addendum - Eddy certainly had a stronger curling mind than Stoughton. Eddy adjusted his team's game by the opponent he faced. Jeff plays basically the same game regardless of opponent; changes it slightly when playing a MONSTER!

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Tap Back
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No Ed Lukowich?
Luke played the most complex game in an era when banging and peeling was the game pre FGZ. He had a very agressive strategy much like Werenich and it cost him lots of games but won him more. 2 Brier wins counts for something.

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gito
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quote:
Originally posted by Tap Back
No Ed Lukowich?
Luke played the most complex game in an era when banging and peeling was the game pre FGZ. He had a very agressive strategy much like Werenich and it cost him lots of games but won him more. 2 Brier wins counts for something.



I agree, Lukowich belongs in the top 5 along with Bernie Sparkes. When you have a favourite turn, and you make the other team play into it 80% of the time, you've got something. Along with a whole bunch of purple hearts.
Paul Gowsell must have had something, to be the first to break the $100,000 mark. (maybe it was hemp and not mind, who knows).
Ernie Richardson??

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Old Post 03-04-11 07:33PM
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Manitoba Legend
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quote:
Originally posted by gito


I agree, Lukowich belongs in the top 5 along with Bernie Sparkes. When you have a favourite turn, and you make the other team play into it 80% of the time, you've got something. Along with a whole bunch of purple hearts.
Paul Gowsell must have had something, to be the first to break the $100,000 mark. (maybe it was hemp and not mind, who knows).
Ernie Richardson??



Think I mentioned last 20 years, (which rules both Eddys out).

Any list of all=time curling minds would have to list Ken Watson, Ron Northcott, Sparkes, Matt Baldwin, Garnet Campbell, Jimmy Welsh, Grant Watson, Jimmy Ursel, Hector Gervais, Bill Tetley, a couple richardsons, don duguid, bronko braunstein, the guy who won the 1964 brier for BC (can't think of his name off the top)

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gito
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quote:
Originally posted by Manitoba Legend


Think I mentioned last 20 years, (which rules both Eddys out).

Any list of all=time curling minds would have to list Ken Watson, Ron Northcott, Sparkes, Matt Baldwin, Garnet Campbell, Jimmy Welsh, Grant Watson, Jimmy Ursel, Hector Gervais, Bill Tetley, a couple richardsons, don duguid, bronko braunstein, the guy who won the 1964 brier for BC (can't think of his name off the top)



I guess you meant the guys who have curled competatively in the past 20 years. Lukowich was coaching in the last 20???

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Old Post 03-04-11 07:56PM
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Manitoba Legend
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quote:
Originally posted by gito


I guess you meant the guys who have curled competatively in the past 20 years. Lukowich was coaching in the last 20???



Yes, pretty much!

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gito
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I'd have to include mark dacey. he won a brier by out thinking Ferbey, who is on the list

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Old Post 03-04-11 08:17PM
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Tap Back
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quote:
Originally posted by Manitoba Legend


Think I mentioned last 20 years, (which rules both Eddys out).


Lukowich won Alberta in 1994 BTW so doing the math is <20 years ago. Just saying!

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gito
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quote:
Originally posted by Tap Back

Lukowich won Alberta in 1994 BTW so doing the math is <20 years ago. Just saying!



If I recall correctly, Fred Maxie won Alberta. he then picked up Eddie for the brier. Or, maybe he won a berth in provincials , then picked up Eddie.

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Old Post 03-04-11 08:37PM
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quote:
Originally posted by gito
I'd have to include mark dacey. he won a brier by out thinking Ferbey, who is on the list


Totally agree, hard to keep Mark D. off the list.

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Old Post 03-04-11 08:47PM
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johnnysmoke
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Re: Re: Top Male Curling Minds (Canada)

quote:
Originally posted by J-Ho


No Ed Werenich? He won off his curling mind his whole career!!

JH


Agreed. It's been awhile since I've read the great Jean Sonmor curling book but my Cole's notes recollection/recap of the Howard/Werenich rivaly was something akin to Ed W was surprised and disbelieving any time a lightweight mind like Russ Howard ever beat him. (Healthy ego there)

By the way, Ed Werenich last qualified and played in the Ontario Tankard 6 years ago. He went 4-5.
A quick search shows Russ Howard winning Ontario to go on to the Brier 8 times, whereas Ed Werenich made it 10 times, although not always as skip. The last of the two to win was Werenich in 97, 14 years ago. Of course Russ went on to qualify out of N.B. several times.

My list would be:
1. Werenich
2. Hackner
3. Middaugh
4. Martin
5. Howard, R
6. Howard, G
7. Stougton
8. Hemmings
9. Ferbey
10. Lukowich

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Old Post 03-04-11 09:14PM
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gito
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Re: Re: Re: Top Male Curling Minds (Canada)

quote:
Originally posted by johnnysmoke

Agreed. It's been awhile since I've read the great Jean Sonmor curling book but my Cole's notes recollection/recap of the Howard/Werenich rivaly was something akin to Ed W was surprised and disbelieving any time a lightweight mind like Russ Howard ever beat him. (Healthy ego there)

By the way, Ed Werenich last qualified and played in the Ontario Tankard 6 years ago. He went 4-5.
A quick search shows Russ Howard winning Ontario to go on to the Brier 8 times, whereas Ed Werenich made it 10 times, although not always as skip. The last of the two to win was Werenich in 97, 14 years ago. Of course Russ went on to qualify out of N.B. several times.

My list would be:
1. Werenich
2. Hackner
3. Middaugh
4. Martin
5. Howard, R
6. Howard, G
7. Stougton
8. Hemmings
9. Ferbey
10. Lukowich



This is a very good list, albeit in a different order then i would pick. You have listed all skips, the minds of every team.

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Old Post 03-04-11 09:24PM
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Johnny put together a nice list.

But you absolutely cannot move Kevin Martin down to the 4 spot.

Even FakeKevinMartin will tell you that!!! lol

I think most everyone would have him at #1 or #2 at worst.

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nelski
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I liked Greg McAuley. He's won more than Hemmings. I think there was something more than high excecution on that team. Can anyone define his strategy? Does he make the list?

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Old Post 03-04-11 09:50PM
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J-Ho
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quote:
Originally posted by gito


If I recall correctly, Fred Maxie won Alberta. he then picked up Eddie for the brier. Or, maybe he won a berth in provincials , then picked up Eddie.



I believe that's what happened. Maxie screwed over his team just like J---oh right...retired!

Seriously though, I had very little use for Maxie after that stunt!

JH

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gito
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quote:
Originally posted by J-Ho


I believe that's what happened. Maxie screwed over his team just like J---oh right...retired!

Seriously though, I had very little use for Maxie after that stunt!

JH



He was never heard from again. I think he would have been rakede over the coals if the internet forums were as common then as now. Is he in the states now???

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J-Ho
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quote:
Originally posted by gito


He was never heard from again. I think he would have been rakede over the coals if the internet forums were as common then as now. Is he in the states now???



No idea and quite frankly don't care. One hit wonder at the elite level.

JH

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hasbin
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No Vic Peters? any list that has Hemmings on it has to have VP ahead of him!

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quote:
Originally posted by hasbin
No Vic Peters? any list that has Hemmings on it has to have VP ahead of him!


Vic had a strong curling mind, certainly stronger than Guy. My biggest memory of Vic is a sad one. He was coasting to his second brier victory but somehow got screwed out of his seeding in the playoffs (the tie-breaker formula stunk to high gates) . . . maybe someone can refresh what happened.

Vic placed all his trust in the manitoba rep to the CCA, a piece of trash named Zivan Saper who in the end was so eager to get onto the CCA board, he screwed over his own team. So sad!

Vic might not be in the Top 10, but he'd be close!

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Old Post 03-05-11 02:20AM
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J-Ho
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quote:
Originally posted by Manitoba Legend


Vic had a strong curling mind, certainly stronger than Guy. My biggest memory of Vic is a aad one. He was coasting to his second brier victory but somehow got screwed out of his seeding in the playoffs (the tie-breaker formula stunk to high gates) . . . maybe someone can refresh what happened.

Vic placed all his trust in the manitoba rep to the CCA, a piece of trash named Zivan Saper who in the end was so eager to get onto the CCA board, he screwed over his own team. So sad!

Vic might not be in the Top 10, but he'd be close!



Wasn't he in a four way tie and had beaten all three teams? I remember the excitement though of the playoff. The winners played each other and the losers played each other. The winning bracket effectively became the 1/2 game and the losers bracket the 3/4. This effectively created the page system in place today. What I really remember is Northern Ontario cracking a 3 or something like that in ten to win one of those games (it was traditional rules back then remember, which made it even more unbelievable!).

JH

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johnnysmoke
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quote:
Originally posted by hasbin
No Vic Peters? any list that has Hemmings on it has to have VP ahead of him!
Maybe, I just don't remember seeing much of Vic P at all.

Hemmings team didn't quite have the horses, execution wise, but he had one of the most creative minds in the game when it came to strategy and calling the play, and it got them to two consecutive Brier finals.
This thread again is about great curling minds, and Hemmings deserves to be on this list. Those two years, Middaugh and Stoughton teams just happened to be better curlers.

I can recall an instance of when several of the top skips on this list made a bonehead call in their storied careers, Kevin Martin most recently at the Worlds. I also recall Russ Howard in a Brier semi-final, when he didn't make the handle he was calling clear enough to his team-mate and the player through the wrong handle!! ouch...

Hackner was the Iceman. His curling mind was fearless.

I'm going to modify my list and add Paul Gowsell to the pile, although technically his good years were > 20 years ago. This guy could win games before the opposition threw their first rock. He won alot of money, but never reached the pinnacle of a Brier win.

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JackFlash
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Re: Top Male Curling Minds (Canada)

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Manitoba Legend
Hopefully, this will incite some good comment and miimize the haters and vicious trolls (looks like Dallas and Gerry are starting to ban trolls & haters, GOOD!)
Anyways, here's my list of Canada's top curling minds (going back no more than 20 years)

1. Kevin Martin (pretty obvious, I like how he calls a game and has the shots to back up some of his bodacious calls)

2. Russ Howard (brilliant strategist who could make all the shots, just a tad behind K-Mart). Could probably still skip a playoff team at a Brier, even at age 57.

3. Glenny Howard - no big flaws. Some stamina issues near event playoffs, etc

4. Richard Hart

5. Jonathan Mead (Stoughton's third, a real plus for Stoughton who isn't known for a giant curling intellect, especially last couple years when he was virtually getting hammered by THE MONSTERS)

6. Rick Folk/Randy Ferbey (Tie)

7. Al Hackner/Rick Laing (tie)

8. Kerry Burtnyk (just ran out of youth pills)

9. Mike 'Ham Hands' Harris

10. Stoughton/Kevin Koe (tie)

11. Pat Ryan, Kevin Park, Don Walchuk, Mike McEwen, Middaugh.....
[/QUOTE
Personally I would add Ed Werenich right after Russ Howard, eliminate Mike 'one time' Harris, and make this a last twenty five years list (Hope the 'wrench' fits!) I also don't think the rest of the pack can fit in Pat Ryan's shoes, so I would rank him by himself and put Middaugh by himself at 11!

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